Playing with a touchy notion

[valarltd]

So, my hero for NaNo: Chuck Hummingbird

He's mid-thirties, Cherokee and gorgeous. He drives a petroleum truck between Seattle and Bozeman MT (about 680 miles, 1 way) He is very good friends with a man at the refinery: John Littlefeather (either in charge of the driver, or the foreman, but definitely of some authority).

When he takes his paperwork in, the exchange goes like this.

Chuck grinned as he opened the office door. Time for one of his favorite games. He wiped the smile off his face and assumed the standard Hollywood "Stoic Indian" face as he put the bill of lading on John's desk. "Got'um heap big load, Littlefeather. You got'um place to hitch steel pony?"

John looked up at him, his face impassive. "Hitch'um in slot two tens, Hummingbird. Great White Mother on coast send red errand boy to steal Injun wampum again."

They could go back and forth for hours, each trying to make the other laugh with the ridiculous pidgen. The loser had to buy the winner lunch. So far they were evenly tied.

Fred Halfmoon opened the door as they launched into a third volley and dropped the clipboard. "How dare you? A century and a half of work and you two are in here acting like...like Hollywood savages."

Both men looked at him and laughed. Chuck looked back at John. "I think we're both buying Fred lunch today, huh?"




Is the above offensive? If you came across it in the first chapter of a romance novel, would you hurl the book across the room? Does it play to stereotypes--other than mockingly--that are damaging? Chuck only uses that sort of language around John. He's very aware of the stereotypes, just as he's always aware of the tatoo on his right bicep (his earliest memory is of being herded into a gymnasium with everyone else and being tattooed. He was three.) and just as he's aware that Lone Star has declared open hunting season on Native Americans and Mexicans, complete with a coyote-like bounty.

Comments

[reannon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I think it's okay, but I think a large number of readers wouldn't. I also find the other guy's reaction odd - it's like he's never seen these guys before. It makes more sense to me if it's something that's always bothered him and he chose today to explode over it, like me growling under my breath about some of the homophobic things one of my coworkers says and someday I will reach by boiling point. I think it's fine, but not as the opening sequence. We need to see that Our Hero speaks normally before we see this exchange. YMMV.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I like your idea, slamming the clipboard instead of just dropping it. Or maybe ol' Fred is a new hire or has just never caught them playing at it before.

But yeah, I think we do need see Chuck speak normally before this.
I did try to make it clear this is all a game. He's bright, educated and well-spoken.

[sailorcelestial.livejournal.com]

1) Minorities are always very aware of the stereotypes regarding them and their culture. It isn't uncommon for people with more of a sense of humor to play on those stereotypes.

2) I really think you have a tendency to be too concerned with what people as a whole are going to think about the risks you take in your writing. But then again, I've only got a little story out there, just one, so most likely I'm still speaking from the idealistic writer's standpoint.

3) What was my deadline for getting back to you on your book again? I've been insanely busy trying to shift from one job to another, and I haven't looked at it in a while. I could go ahead and tell you my basic thoughts and impressions, though.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I worry because one book getting "racist" hung on it makes it a lot more difficult to sell anything else. I mean, I could avoid it entirely by simply setting everything in Ireland and Scotland and Norway, but that's a different kind of prejudice. Besides Viking chief/captive Irisher is overdone.


I'm not in a great hurry. End of the month would be fine. End of the year at the latest. But basic thoughts and impressions are always welcome.

[sailorcelestial.livejournal.com]

I really don't think it can be considered racist when the two people are members of that race, and they're obviously having fun with it. It would be different if it were two white men talking in the same language. THEN it would sound derrogatory. As it is, it's just two guys having some fun. But again, it's just me, so take it or leave it.

I will definitely have it to you by the end of the year, I won't take that long. I'll shoot for end of the month. ^___^

[witchwillow.livejournal.com]

I have a cold and fever. Yet I take the time out of my dazed and dozed state to beat you with a stick.

YOU SUCK.

There. Now that you've been properly chastized you can STOP feeling already like you're doing something racist. Time and time again you show yourself to be creating CHARACTERS as in PEOPLE.

However, as I'm not familiar with Native American pigden and have no idea if it's a Hollywood generic thing that has no ties to the differences between Hopi and Cherokee - it'd be clearer if you stick a few more cliches in there. Maybe a 'How'. And some hand to mouth whooping like little boys do when they're playing cowboys and indians. Or I don't know, other cliches.

Also, Fred needs a build up, if he doesn't have it in excerpts that come before.

Randomly: I do know how you fele though. I'm currently researching into things 'Farie' and find myself wanting to use descriptive/pictorial names. After all that's where names -came- from; those kind of associations. But I end up going 'how tv/hollywood would it be to have a race usually thought of as 'Celtic' to have names like Moonfeather and ShiningHigh. Even though I know that one of my own names means 'Precious Flower' and I know that Manderin and Cantonese names are similarly descriptive.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I like the war whoop. And a How. And an Ugh.

And so far, that and a couple hand-written scribbles are all I have. It's all plotted, but I can't write for 20 more days!

The pidgen is a complete invention, created first for the radio and then carried into movies. It bears no resemblence to any spoken indigenous language. I've been making sure I get the names right. All three surnames are pretty common. Hummingbird is Cherokee, but Halfmoon is Crow. (They are in Montana)

Names--especially surnames--tend to fall into four classes: descriptive, patronymic, location and profession. And the type varies by location.

[grlnamedlucifer.livejournal.com]

I think it's fine, personally. (Not being part of any minority myself, you can take or leave that.) But I agree with reannon, I wouldn't make it the first impression you get of them. People are less likely, I think, to be offended if they know the character a bit first and can clearly see they're just joking around and that's not normally how they speak. (Which you did make clear, but it's still a first impression sort of thing.)

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Good idea. Maybe toward the end of the first chapter...

[elisabeth.livejournal.com]

Well, I thought it was a stitch. But then, given my own ethnic origins, I tend to play the 'obtuse Pollock' game with one friend, and the 'thieving, untrustworthy Gypsy' game with another. It really is a matter of perspective; folks who take themselves too seriously or who have bought into the PC concept too heavily are going to be offended no matter WHAT you do. But given that none of my breeding includes 'native American' stock, I rang up my brother-in-law (half Cherokee) and aimed him at the post.

And was nearly deafened by HIS laughter. (He wants a copy of the story when it's done, by the way, as do I.)

*shrugs* In the end, love, any given piece is going to offend SOMEbody. Let the muse flow, and see where it takes you. :)

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I don't know that BiL will want it. It's going to be homoerotic romance. Chuck is...manually oriented. Hence the title Glad Hands.

You can read it as a work in progress at angelnanowrimo starting Nov 1. (you'll need to friend, it's a legal/professional thing)

[elisabeth.livejournal.com]

*giggles softly*
No, he'll run screaming. But he's hard headed, so I'll let him learn it himself. :p

Me, I'm off to friend the other journal, because I like romance novels in general. *blinkblink* Never saw the point in choosing a lover/playmate based on gender either, so it's all good to me. :)

[angelnanowrimo.livejournal.com]

Friended back

[mirabella]

Honestly? I wouldn't hurl it across the room, but I'd go "Ew" and put it back down. Not knowing anything else about the characters, it comes across to me as two guys mired in internalized bigotry; it makes me cringe on their behalf, but not in a way that would make me want to get to know them any better.

I think I'd enjoy it more

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

if Fred was wearing a suit or was obviously an office or admin type. That might make it more pointed.

[hlglne.livejournal.com]

I am an Injun by marriage, and I say they would do it. Just like those gangstas call each other nigga. But nobody else better try it. Sort of like that bit in the Jackie Chan movie Rush Hour 2, when he nearly gets himself killed trying to be cool. The guy objecting to their play is probably a white guy. Why is a Cherokee way up north there anyhow? He should be a Suqamish or Kwakiutl or something-- I forget whatall-- like Sherman Alexie.

[hlglne.livejournal.com]

Wait, I'm not done--- bicep tattoo like in the Nazi death camps? Is this one of those future history deals? or did this really happen to some Cherokee and I'm not aware of it due to living in another part of USA?

[hlglne.livejournal.com]

Okay, I friended the nano comm and educated myself. sorry for the stupid question.