valarltd | State of the Sookie

Writing:
350 on the toil and Trouble call

Total for day:350
Total for the month: 6330
Total for the year: 163463

Editing: Contemplating how to make it clear Niall is a good man trapped by bad religion, and that he's in the story for a purpose.

Workout: none

Flying: none

Reading: Ender's Game

Crafting: knitted on Who scarf. 33 rows through 56 row chunk of green

Media: none

Business: none

Crossposts: http://valarltd.livejournal.com/1822486.html

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From: (Anonymous)

Aside from keeping the door wedged open to allow for M/M homosexuality, Niall really contributes very little of any relevance or use to the story, and the story actually would work & move perfectly well without him. Niall, as he stands, is the epitome of an NPC, and a bit of a weirdo--at that--with this religious views.

Difficult to cast much of a positive light upon anyone who flat out demonizes half of humanity & society based on something like gender, which they had no say nor control over being, and which they cannot realistically change--even if they wanted to. This would be like having another religion that demonizes homosexuals. Oh... Wait! We already have a few of those today. Nevermind.

Basically, it seems to me, that anyone who chooses to belong to Niall's religion has some pretty chronic, deep-rooted & serious Mommy issues. At the very worst, Niall's religion comes across as a gay extremist world & religious view & fantasy used to legitimize their lifestyle by negating the importance of & need for M/F pairings. At best Niall's religion comes across as just... Irrational, lost on the fringes, and weird, as is anyone who belongs to it.

I am pretty much of the opinion that this one is beyond salvaging, as it is kinda like trying to say that "X" is still a good person, even though he's a White Supremist, or a Nazi, or a Wahhabi. It's going to be a really tough sell to anyone outside his group. Good people do get trapped by bad ideas, but the extent by which they can remain "good" and still be what they've chosen to be and/or follow then becomes problematic. In the same vein, am sure there were also good people who hunted, tortured, and burned witches at the stake centuries ago too... and who herded Jews into cattle cars & later the gas chambers in WWII... and who today see no problem nor sin in killing infidels with a bomb on a school bus or passenger jet.

Sometimes when you paint yourself or a character into a corner, you need to just leave it as is, as trying to fix it will only create a bigger mess. Niall's purpose in the story might be only to serve as a bad example of what a homosexual male sub can be.

From:

valarltd.livejournal.com

Niall sees Neo-Augustinian beliefs as the only way he can be gay and remain Catholic (even if they are fringe Catholic). He can't give up men. He can't go to Hell. He's found a compromise.

I'd say it was more comparable to Mormon doctrine on blacks: Sons of Cain and Ham who couldn't actually hold priesthood or participate in the temple and were destined to be servants in the afterlife. (this changed in 1978)

And most monotheists already demonize women. Niall's just says what the rest only whisper and make into canon law and try to put into civil law. Women only have souls because a bunch of Irish bishops put their collective foot down at the Council of Nicea in 322. These days, good Christian legislators are working in several states to get miscarriages declared criminal. Almost every woman miscarries at some point. Good Christians are talking about repealing the 19th amendment.

Neo-Augustinians are much like Westboro Baptist Church. They only say, out loud and as a matter of doctrine, what many already believe and act on.

Niall is there at first as a measure of how much better Ariel is doing in moving out of his grief. He is there as a motivating factor for Zara to intervene. If Niall wasn't in there, she'd just bring Ariel up, have him change the locks and keep David confined until surgery. Drama factor.

From: (Anonymous)

Alrighty then. You have answered your own premise: How do you make it clear Niall is a good man trapped by bad religion, and that he's in the story for a purpose.

You can't.

The Catholic Church is never going to sanction a sect that allows--much less promotes--homosexuality over heterosexuality unless the members are keeping their dicks in their pants instead of each other. You can't have your cake & eat it too, and then put the blame on somebody else (women), as it's better than the alternative (women), which/whom Holy Mother Church whole-heartedly endorses under the bonds of holy matrimony. Monotheists may demonize women, but women nonetheless still serve a vital purpose (natural child-bearing, to keep the pews full of new believers/soldiers/servants). Gays don't.

Then, by your own admission: Niall is there at first as a measure of how another (major) character is doing... He is there as a motivating factor... And he is there for the drama factor. This is frankly (and mayhap sadly) the definition of an NPC; to add color, flavor & drama to a story, but not to necessarily really do/accomplish anything significant. Niall is only there in a supporting role, same as the jolly bartender who welcomes an AD&D party to the inn, or the gruff city guardsman who hassles the party in the street because he doesn't like the look of one of them, or the old gypsy woman who gives the party a cryptic clue or warning before the party moves off to their next adventure. Niall is in the same camp as Jessica Hardweld & Kinshassa. If he were to be completely written out of the story, or somehow killed (being as he is already an established presence), the story would still progress & continue & work just fine without him. No new character would need to be promoted, imported, nor created to take his place to do what it is he does... as he actually does/contributes nothing unique nor (especially) significant.

This is unfortunate, as--of the two brothers--Sean is the less dynamic & interesting, and has/had less seeming potential. Fine... Niall even got his own bit; a solo adventure. In Batman, the animated series, sometimes Robin and/or Batgirl would score a solo bit/episode of their own. In the final tally though, at the end, it was still all about Batman & his world, which Robin & Batgirl just share & hold a place in (as supporting actors).

This can change.
Niall can change his (screwball) religion.
I am sure there must be some form of enlightened religion out there that accepts homosexuality as just another part of Nature (same as what you ultimately found). There is a difference between being rooted in a religion, and being chained to it.

In the sequel to Hard Reboot, Niall could/should even establish himself, same as Irishgirl & Technomancer have. He has all the (largely unused) potential to be a major force on the Net. He's just never given the chance to be what he could be. Until he does... He's an NPC, and tainted by his wacky extremist religion so that his "goodness" must remain questionable.

From:

valarltd.livejournal.com

You seem to think changing a religion is an easy thing to do. It is not.
It took me twenty years, and a god trying to kill my children, before I decided that particular god did not want me.

It takes a willingness to gamble on a very uncomfortable eternity, a lot of defiance and ultimately being incredibly uncomfortable with the faith you're trying to practice.

It takes a willingness to lose your community, your support system and your family. Changing religion isn't something most people do on a whim, unless they're rootless dabblers.

Niall is none of those. Rome may not recognize the Neo-Augustinians officially. But Rome doesn't recognize Episcopalians, either, and many of them consider themselves pretty much Catholic.

Niall is a very interesting character, but he was never meant to be more than a supporting character. The story was always Sean's.

Edited Date: 2013-06-03 03:53 am (UTC)

From: (Anonymous)

Niall might be to you what "the creature" was to doctor Frankenstein. He is not what you wanted him to be, but he now is what he is (tragically flawed), what you essentially made him, and you need to accept him for that.

Unlike Frankenstein's monster though, Niall chose to be what he is (a religious nut and extremist); he can therefore chose to be something else after what he now is fails to work for him on some epic or consistent level. I honestly cannot see Niall nor anyone being raised in his current religion in any household with a mother, so it is something he had to find later in life--for whatever twisted reason--and which somehow struck him as right. People make mistakes.

In a similar vein: How many religions have you belonged to & later fallen out with? Can't Niall do the same?

Perhaps in the sequel to Hard Reboot, Niall can play a greater role and become more of a hero. Who better than a wolf to track Zara on the Net after she disappears? When it comes time to lay siege to the warlord's cyber defenses to clear the way for BEAST ground troops and Zara's rescue, what havoc might a pissed off & well-motivated werewolf be capable of? Niall's credentials were well-laid out for him as a major force (once upon a time) on the Net, but these and Niall then fell by the wayside in favor of the major characters & overall story. Wasted potential, plus Niall then got pegged with & mired in his weird religion, and that pretty well put the nails in the lid to his coffin as far as a character we could really do much with.

From:

valarltd.livejournal.com

1) Niall was raised Catholic, as Sean was. Altar boys, the whole nine. This is made abundantly clear throughout Hard Reboot, and in "Double Dealing" and "Chained to the Wheel."

The Neo-Augstinian came after Mom died, after he figured out that no, he really was gay, it wasn't a phase and no way could he live without his religion. It's a compromise position for him.

It took me more than 20 years to give up Christianity after admitting the god in question hated everything about me. And I spent a lot of those years burying myself in the most legalistic forms I could find in order to make him hate me a little less. Religion isn't something one casually walks away from if one has been steeped in it since early childhood and really believes.

2) Niall got a whole short to himself. You weren't interested, but let me hit you with one bit:

The EIT squad had only carried out the chair and computer. They watched Sean look around the denuded apartment, clearly ransacked by looters. His mouth hung open and he shook his head in disbelief. Sean stood in the spot where Niall's chair had been, picked up the card EIT had left and swore long and colorfully in English, street jargon and a smattering of Irish Gaelic their mother had passed down to them. He stalked from room to room, the heat-seeking sensor in the bug following him. It was designed to look like an actual beetle and skittered along the walls and ceiling as he made a full circuit of the rooms. He reached into one ventilation duct and pulled out a box. He opened it, and the feed showed a photograph, a few medals and a rosary, along with two small packets of ash.

“Mom and Da are safe,” Niall sighed.

Sean took the box, the one no-longer-framed photograph on the floor by where the bed used to be, the statue of St. Isidore of Seville, the patron of Net-runners, from the doorside nook and his toothbrush. He walked out the door without another look.

“It seems he was unattached to the place,” Erik said. “Although he does seem to miss you.”

3) and I absolutely think Gemini will say "Fetch, boy" and set Timberwolf on the trail of his missing Technomancer. Am considering the sequel for Julnawrimo.