Long weekend
Oct. 20th, 2003 11:15 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
valarltdIt was rough.
Sat, there was a parents meeting for the play. Bunny is a Birch tree dryad, Jonner and Obi are part of the Witch's Army.
I did my gorcery shopping
Saturday night my alarm system shorted out. A pumper truck, 2 police and the fire chief had to be appeased and apologized to. And the neighbors had to be soothed
Sunday I slept far too late. I did laundry. There was a showing of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe for the cast. We went. Jonner sat on my lap for almost an hour of it. Then, supper and I had to get ready for work. We counted a CompUSA. Took about 3 hours, which means we were over-staffed, because it's a 4hr inventory.
Did some assesment on erotic vs. squicky rape.
Some thoughts behind the cut-tag.
Still thinking on the “desire makes for erotic rape” idea. Consider the following cases: Dinah and Tamar.
Dinah (Gen 34) was the daughter of Jacob and Leah, sister of Joseph. Her story runs thus:
Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the daughters of the land. When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force. He was deeply attracted to Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, "Get me this young girl for a wife." (NAS)
I think I like the following version better:
And when Sichem the son of Hemor the Hevite, the prince of that land, saw her, he was in love with her: and took her away, and lay with her, ravishing the virgin. And his soul was fast knit unto her, and whereas she was sad, he comforted her with sweet words. And going to Hemor his father, he said: Get me this damsel to wife. (Douay)
The first is “Want, take, love.” The second is “Love, take, soulbond.”
The King James reads: “ And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.”
The King James gives no indication that it was necessarily rape. “Defiling” merely means she would be unsuited to marry any other now that she is no longer a virgin.
When Hamor goes to Jacob, Dinah’s brothers set a stiff bride-price: every man in town has to be circumcised. Yet Shecham finds it perfectly reasonable. His love for this girl is so great that impromptu surgery with no anesthetic is fine with him.
That makes his taking of Dinah look a lot less like rape and a lot more like a mutual ploy by lovers to get a marriage they wanted. (It didn't turn out well)
On the other hand, there’s Tamar, daughter of David:
(2 Samuel 13)
And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David had a fair sister, whose name [was] Tamar; and Amnon the son of David loved her. And Amnon was so vexed, that he fell sick for his sister Tamar; for she [was] a virgin; and Amnon thought it hard for him to do any thing to her.
But Amnon had a friend, whose name [was] Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother: and Jonadab [was] a very subtil man. And he said unto him, Why [art] thou, [being] the king's son, lean from day to day? wilt thou not tell me?
And Amnon said unto him, I love Tamar, my brother Absalom's sister.
(note the closeness Jonadeb emphasizes, while Amnon distances himself from his half-sister)
And Jonadab said unto him, Lay thee down on thy bed, and make thyself sick: and when thy father cometh to see thee, say unto him, I pray thee, let my sister Tamar come, and give me meat, and dress the meat in my sight, that I may see [it], and eat [it] at her hand.
So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand.
Then David sent home to Tamar, saying, Go now to thy brother Amnon's house, and dress him meat.
So Tamar went to her brother Amnon's house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded [it], and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes. And she took a pan, and poured [them] out before him; but he refused to eat.
And Amnon said, Have out all men from me. And they went out every man from him. And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought [them] into the chamber to Amnon her brother.
And when she had brought [them] unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.
And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly. And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee.
Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her.
Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her [was] greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone.
And she said unto him, [There is] no cause: this evil in sending me away [is] greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her.
The squick here is not the desire. Amnon does desire her. And Tamar does not seem unwilling. She even tells him “Talk to Dad, and he’ll give me to you. Just don’t hurt me.” But for Amnon, it’s not about wanting Tamar as a person, or he’d have followed the advice. It’s about seizing and defiling her, and maybe striking back a bit at her brother Absolem, who is David’s favorite. And the sudden shift from wanting to loathing is the key clue to this, and what turns the narrative squicky.
http://www.alabaster-jars.com/biblewomen-t.html#tamar
The same squickiness shows up in the tale of the Levite’s concubine (Judges 19) who is raped to death (he says) by Benjaminite men.
The tale is similar to the story of Lot’s visitors: the men of the town assemble to rape a stranger, asserting their territory and dominance. A woman is offered as a substitute.
In this case, they take her. She has no name. Her only backstory is that she was angry with her husband and went home to her father for a time and they were journeying back to their home. She is raped throughout the night and left to die on a doorstep. The simple brutality of this narrative makes it squicky, although there is no actual reference to what was done.
An even more disturbing suggestion is on this page, that perhaps she still lived when her husband took the knife to her, dividing her into 12 pieces:
http://www.alabaster-jars.com/biblewomen-l.html
Sat, there was a parents meeting for the play. Bunny is a Birch tree dryad, Jonner and Obi are part of the Witch's Army.
I did my gorcery shopping
Saturday night my alarm system shorted out. A pumper truck, 2 police and the fire chief had to be appeased and apologized to. And the neighbors had to be soothed
Sunday I slept far too late. I did laundry. There was a showing of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe for the cast. We went. Jonner sat on my lap for almost an hour of it. Then, supper and I had to get ready for work. We counted a CompUSA. Took about 3 hours, which means we were over-staffed, because it's a 4hr inventory.
Did some assesment on erotic vs. squicky rape.
Some thoughts behind the cut-tag.
Still thinking on the “desire makes for erotic rape” idea. Consider the following cases: Dinah and Tamar.
Dinah (Gen 34) was the daughter of Jacob and Leah, sister of Joseph. Her story runs thus:
Now Dinah the daughter of Leah, whom she had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the daughters of the land. When Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her, he took her and lay with her by force. He was deeply attracted to Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the girl and spoke tenderly to her. So Shechem spoke to his father Hamor, saying, "Get me this young girl for a wife." (NAS)
I think I like the following version better:
And when Sichem the son of Hemor the Hevite, the prince of that land, saw her, he was in love with her: and took her away, and lay with her, ravishing the virgin. And his soul was fast knit unto her, and whereas she was sad, he comforted her with sweet words. And going to Hemor his father, he said: Get me this damsel to wife. (Douay)
The first is “Want, take, love.” The second is “Love, take, soulbond.”
The King James reads: “ And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.”
The King James gives no indication that it was necessarily rape. “Defiling” merely means she would be unsuited to marry any other now that she is no longer a virgin.
When Hamor goes to Jacob, Dinah’s brothers set a stiff bride-price: every man in town has to be circumcised. Yet Shecham finds it perfectly reasonable. His love for this girl is so great that impromptu surgery with no anesthetic is fine with him.
That makes his taking of Dinah look a lot less like rape and a lot more like a mutual ploy by lovers to get a marriage they wanted. (It didn't turn out well)
On the other hand, there’s Tamar, daughter of David:
(2 Samuel 13)
And it came to pass after this, that Absalom the son of David had a fair sister, whose name [was] Tamar; and Amnon the son of David loved her. And Amnon was so vexed, that he fell sick for his sister Tamar; for she [was] a virgin; and Amnon thought it hard for him to do any thing to her.
But Amnon had a friend, whose name [was] Jonadab, the son of Shimeah David's brother: and Jonadab [was] a very subtil man. And he said unto him, Why [art] thou, [being] the king's son, lean from day to day? wilt thou not tell me?
And Amnon said unto him, I love Tamar, my brother Absalom's sister.
(note the closeness Jonadeb emphasizes, while Amnon distances himself from his half-sister)
And Jonadab said unto him, Lay thee down on thy bed, and make thyself sick: and when thy father cometh to see thee, say unto him, I pray thee, let my sister Tamar come, and give me meat, and dress the meat in my sight, that I may see [it], and eat [it] at her hand.
So Amnon lay down, and made himself sick: and when the king was come to see him, Amnon said unto the king, I pray thee, let Tamar my sister come, and make me a couple of cakes in my sight, that I may eat at her hand.
Then David sent home to Tamar, saying, Go now to thy brother Amnon's house, and dress him meat.
So Tamar went to her brother Amnon's house; and he was laid down. And she took flour, and kneaded [it], and made cakes in his sight, and did bake the cakes. And she took a pan, and poured [them] out before him; but he refused to eat.
And Amnon said, Have out all men from me. And they went out every man from him. And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought [them] into the chamber to Amnon her brother.
And when she had brought [them] unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.
And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly. And I, whither shall I cause my shame to go? and as for thee, thou shalt be as one of the fools in Israel. Now therefore, I pray thee, speak unto the king; for he will not withhold me from thee.
Howbeit he would not hearken unto her voice: but, being stronger than she, forced her, and lay with her.
Then Amnon hated her exceedingly; so that the hatred wherewith he hated her [was] greater than the love wherewith he had loved her. And Amnon said unto her, Arise, be gone.
And she said unto him, [There is] no cause: this evil in sending me away [is] greater than the other that thou didst unto me. But he would not hearken unto her.
The squick here is not the desire. Amnon does desire her. And Tamar does not seem unwilling. She even tells him “Talk to Dad, and he’ll give me to you. Just don’t hurt me.” But for Amnon, it’s not about wanting Tamar as a person, or he’d have followed the advice. It’s about seizing and defiling her, and maybe striking back a bit at her brother Absolem, who is David’s favorite. And the sudden shift from wanting to loathing is the key clue to this, and what turns the narrative squicky.
http://www.alabaster-jars.com/biblewomen-t.html#tamar
The same squickiness shows up in the tale of the Levite’s concubine (Judges 19) who is raped to death (he says) by Benjaminite men.
The tale is similar to the story of Lot’s visitors: the men of the town assemble to rape a stranger, asserting their territory and dominance. A woman is offered as a substitute.
In this case, they take her. She has no name. Her only backstory is that she was angry with her husband and went home to her father for a time and they were journeying back to their home. She is raped throughout the night and left to die on a doorstep. The simple brutality of this narrative makes it squicky, although there is no actual reference to what was done.
An even more disturbing suggestion is on this page, that perhaps she still lived when her husband took the knife to her, dividing her into 12 pieces:
http://www.alabaster-jars.com/biblewomen-l.html
