Several thoughts on a single subject
Nov. 17th, 2014 09:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
valarltdWe're working on a game sourcebook set in the Eight thrones universe.
The problem of rape in the Confederated States came up. The CS has reverted to mostly Old Testament Law, including a Gold Standard, standard weights and measures, some dietary laws and such.
Deuteronomy 22 is pretty clear on how to handle things:
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Rape is a property crime against a father. Married women are considered adulteresses, because consent is not a factor in sexual propriety.
Even today, sexual ethics are based on purity, not consent. This is why certain strains of Christians have no problem lumping rape, incest, homosexuality and bestiality all into the same category. Because they are all impurity.
We decided to treat it as a property crime/adultery, but to give the husband the option to cover over his wife if he loves her enough. He can plead for her life, claim she was violated and stolen, that only the attacker should be punished. The court assumes he will punish her adequately all her life for the crime of being attacked. And he likely will. Because no man is ever QUITE sure it was rape. In the back of his mind, there always lurks the fear it was her choice and she faked it. (and if a woman is hauled in on a second count, she is executed)
The courts usually show leniency. After all, we aren't dealing with Vlad Tepis here.
It is said the Prince once noticed a man working in the fields while wearing a shirt that he adjudged to be too short in length. The prince stopped and asked to see the man’s wife. When the woman was brought before him he asked her how she spent her days. The poor, frightened woman stated that she spent her days washing, baking and sewing. The prince pointed out her husband’s short caftan as evidence of her laziness and dishonesty and ordered her impaled, despite her husband’s protestations that he was well satisfied with his wife. Vlad told him to be satisfied with another, and then ordered another woman to marry the peasant but admonished her to work hard or she would suffer the same fate.
(Or as I said when I was complaining one of my heroes was stupid for not abandoning his quest to find his wife "There are five billion women in the world. He needs to find another one.")
The problem of rape in the Confederated States came up. The CS has reverted to mostly Old Testament Law, including a Gold Standard, standard weights and measures, some dietary laws and such.
Deuteronomy 22 is pretty clear on how to handle things:
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Rape is a property crime against a father. Married women are considered adulteresses, because consent is not a factor in sexual propriety.
Even today, sexual ethics are based on purity, not consent. This is why certain strains of Christians have no problem lumping rape, incest, homosexuality and bestiality all into the same category. Because they are all impurity.
We decided to treat it as a property crime/adultery, but to give the husband the option to cover over his wife if he loves her enough. He can plead for her life, claim she was violated and stolen, that only the attacker should be punished. The court assumes he will punish her adequately all her life for the crime of being attacked. And he likely will. Because no man is ever QUITE sure it was rape. In the back of his mind, there always lurks the fear it was her choice and she faked it. (and if a woman is hauled in on a second count, she is executed)
The courts usually show leniency. After all, we aren't dealing with Vlad Tepis here.
It is said the Prince once noticed a man working in the fields while wearing a shirt that he adjudged to be too short in length. The prince stopped and asked to see the man’s wife. When the woman was brought before him he asked her how she spent her days. The poor, frightened woman stated that she spent her days washing, baking and sewing. The prince pointed out her husband’s short caftan as evidence of her laziness and dishonesty and ordered her impaled, despite her husband’s protestations that he was well satisfied with his wife. Vlad told him to be satisfied with another, and then ordered another woman to marry the peasant but admonished her to work hard or she would suffer the same fate.
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no subject
Date: 2014-11-17 04:59 pm (UTC)HOWEVER.
I postulate that love exists in all forms. Christians are encouraged to love their wives. Love their families. Human nature is for a man to protect his wife, the things that are his to protect. The law's one thing. Practicality is another. We -aren't- dealing with Vlad Tepis here. We're dealing with political Christians. And most men, upon finding that their wives are a.) Not of the desire to engage in sexual acts that aren't them at all, and b.) clinging to them, damaged but still needing them, they're not going to throw them to the stonings. Most Christian men i know would rather be stoned themselves than watch their wives, already so broken and battered, be punished for what was not their faults. Human nature would rule here in a good percentage of cases.
Our arguments on subjects like these stem from our basic differences - that human beings love another human being, that human beings can aspire to greatness no matter their lot in life, and that in the end, while there are terrible people in the world, people are basically good pragmatists - they will do good as long as they can comfortably do so, and usually longer if it's something that would bruise their ego to fail at.
no subject
Date: 2014-11-17 05:32 pm (UTC)I'm in a strange limbo where I want to believe the best of people, but people consistently prove that they are motivated more by obedience to authority and mob mentality than anything else.
If I were put in a room and told to deliver increasingly high and violent electric shocks to someone else--unknown and in another room--I would like to believe I would say "Fuck all y'all, and fuck this." But I can't in all honesty say that I would.
Truly good, selfless people exist. But unfortunately, they are not the majority.
no subject
Date: 2014-11-19 05:41 pm (UTC)There are some really horrible people in this area of the world, but I maintain that the law and the statistics of the law being passively followed would be different.
no subject
Date: 2014-11-19 07:54 pm (UTC)Rape is a property crime against a man by another man or it is a case of adultery. The woman is not a victim. She is either a destroyed object or a participant.
It runs on the premise of transferable consent: once she has had sex, she has no right to say no to any other man. That's even still around today, when a woman's sexual history is dragged into her rape case.
Remember, Purity Ethic, not Consent Ethic. In a purity ethic, there is only sex God approves of and sex he doesn't. There is no victimization.
The D-Man Checks In
Date: 2014-11-19 08:49 am (UTC)As I see religious fundamentalism: It's all a control mechanism, wherein everyone but the ruling & religious class/caste is highly expendable... women in particular.
(Convenient & expedient when & where all political & religious leaders are exclusively male, as this leaves about 50% of the population as ready scapegoats when they are not being used as slave labor.)
"Do not question authority. Do as you are told, or we shall bring the wrath of God down upon you, if The Lord High God doesn't beat us to it. If we do not punish and/or kill you for the crime of daring disobedience, The Lord High God may punish and/or kill us all."
Human nature is to survive.
Go along to get along.
Take the easiest path.
Take the path most traveled.
This is what politicians & priests rely & bet on.
There is a reason why The Faithful are often referred to as sheep in a flock, instead of wolves in a pack, which is odd--considering the bulk of humanity runs on a pack and/or tribal mentality, like wolves, where everything important is about territory, affiliation, and status.
Fundamentally, the strong very much rule the weak & the meek. This is how kings & priests have governed & managed & survived for centuries, and they will do almost anything to keep themselves in power once established.
Being religious fundamentalists... is the CS obeying the Bible & making burnt offerings again, as the Bible instructs/commands? Could be an interesting world, if so. I do not see anywhere in the Bible where God says, "Thou art civilized now. Thou need not do that anymore to satisfy & glorify Me."
In the CS, are women even allowed to attend school beyond a basic level so that they could function semi-independently at a market if a male cannot attend them?
Re: The D-Man Checks In
Date: 2014-11-19 07:33 pm (UTC)From Glad Hands:
"Morning, Officer," he said, glancing down to make sure his work gloves and watch on his right wrist covered the tattoo. "Heard ya got an Indian in. Never saw a live one."
"This ain’t a zoo, sonny. ‘Sides, that one’s gone. Sent him to Birmingham not an hour ago. They’ve got his execution time blocked on tomorrow’s TV already. Lots of ‘em going down tomorrow. We ain’t the U.S., where they treat garbage like that better ‘n real people." He clicked over and showed the schedule to Seven.
"Well, rats." Seven was careful not to swear. "Looks like I just get to watch him on TV. Boy, I wish I could go down to Birmingham and see it."
"Long way down. Three hundred miles and more." The sheriff made it sound like the far side of the moon, and Seven hid a smile. He’d done almost five hundred with Chuck yesterday. "I love watching the executions at the big ol’ stadium. They got those rock-throwers in a couple years ago. Just like the pitching machine for the batting cages, ‘cept the criminals don’t get no bats and they’s about ten of them pitching all at once." The officer looked lost in contemplation.
No burnt offerings.
1) They are Christian, not Jewish. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, and burning animals is no longer needed.
2)The Temple in Jerusalem--the only acceptable place to do this--was destroyed. Jews don't even do animal sacrifices these days.
3) Offerings and such are Holiness Code, intended only for the Israelites and are null under the New Covenant. However, the laws for running a society stand.
Women get NO schooling. If Mom is literate, she can teach the girls. Women don't have access to money. A man's pay is his own. A man who decides to spend the whole of his paycheck on himself and not feed his family is within his legal rights. (The church elders may have a long talk with him though) Most women operate as functionally illiterate, grow a lot of their own food and shop by picture.
Re: The D-Man Checks In
Date: 2014-11-19 09:31 pm (UTC)Re: The D-Man Checks In
Date: 2014-11-20 04:36 pm (UTC)Murderers get the rocks first. Then Sodomites. Adulteresses (men are almost never convicted of this) and non-virgin brides. Incest perpetators and bestialists. Rebellious children. Kidnappers. Prostitutes. Blasphemy/Idolatry (in short, being anything but Protestant)/Atheism. Witchcraft/fortuntelling/attempting to convert people to a new religion.
Most others get off with prison or a fine. Skipping church is a fine and community service.
Re: The D-Man Checks In
Date: 2014-11-20 04:43 pm (UTC)From Nikolai Revenant:
In the morning, he awoke to find the suite empty. On the pillow beside him was a passport in his name, an airline ticket for Italy dated six weeks away, and a note.
“Nicholas,
Work calls me away. Tanis and David are needed with me. Val will take you home and continue your lessons. Your Italian studies have been recently neglected. He will rectify this. You will stay with him in his apartment until I return. I should not need to tell you to obey him in every particular. He is, at best, a mediocre cook, so you will take on that chore. We leave for Italy in a month and a half as you no doubt have already seen. Miss Perkins’ execution is at noon today. You sent her a lovely letter of encouragement and a dozen daffodils. She will die clutching them, with your name on her lips. You will watch this en route home. Your second lesson: We always own the consequences of our actions. Go now, leave nothing behind.
Yours in haste,”
It was signed with a fanciful “L.”
Nick carried his bags to the circle drive where Val waited. The driver held the door for him. He climbed in alone, and turned on the news. It was almost noon.
He watched as Charlotte, still in the nightgown he’d found her in, was dragged into the Stoneyard. She ripped herself free of the matrons’ hands and walked out to the middle of the square, a dozen flowers wrapped in a note clutched to her bosom, head high and stride dignified, as if walking to the altar of her wedding.
“Senator George Perkins of Georgia was horrified when his daughter’s fiancé caught her in sodomitic fornication with another man. We understand several pleas have been made on her behalf by her fiancé—in fact, the flowers she carries are from him—but to no avail. The note reads only: ‘Courage, my sister, my bride. I am moving heaven and earth and the stone of my uncle’s heart that you may live. Should I fail, go bravely, without fear, and rejoice in the knowledge you shall be mine again in that place where all tears are wiped away.’ Let her be made an example of, and let the Daughters of the Confederation take warning by her fate.” The broadcaster made sure to get out of the camera range so they could get a good shot of Charlotte.
Nick settled in to watch. He saw the first stone come hurtling at her, thrown by the circle of automatic pitching machines. She stood tall and took it with only a small cry. More, and then a hail of them. The news cameras made sure they got the best angles and close-ups as she went to her knees, shielding her head. When her arm was broken by a big rock, she screamed and wept. His name came through the tears. He hadn’t expected this to affect him. He wasn’t sure when he started wincing at each rock thrown at her.
“Nicholas!” she wailed for the camera and the cry pierced right through him. Another rock hit her in the face. “Nick!” She cried his name, until she was prostrate. Then she only said “Mama,” and died.
They were almost to Nashville. She’d died hard.