A post just for chibisama

[valarltd]

chibisama asked me to post the relevant Bible verses on homosexuality, and a brief description of my own views.

The latter is easier. I'm bisexual, currently commited heterosexually. I grew up fundamentalist in a rabidly anti-gay church. Every preacher has a hobby horse. Bro. Bob's was gay folk destroying society. This was devastating to a teen who was beginning to realize she wanted to kiss girls the same way she wanted to kiss boys. Over the years, I've held many views. Currently, the one I hold is "God loves me. My job is to love Him and others. The rest is details." I think same-sex marriages should be legal, but I think a church has every right to dictate who it will and will not marry. Just as Fr. Charlie would not have married my husband and I at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Rolla, because we are not Catholic and he did not marry nonCatholics, so Rev. Billy should not have to marry Joe and Fred because his church does not marry gays.

The icon I'm using is Debbie Novotny, from "Queer as Folk." She's den mother to the tribe of Lost Boys that inhabits the show, and Mom to Michael, our narrator. That should say most everything.

I had a long road, and a lot to wrestle with. Also, every guy I dated later came out of the closet. So I had guilt for "turning them gay" as well. I've let go of all that.


Bible Passages:

There are many better sources than my maunderings, so I'm pulling from them:

http://www.stonewallrevisited.com/issues/marco2.html#5
Summarizes both the pro and anti gay sides of theology, but comes down heavy on the anti-gay side

http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html
Recovering from Bible Abuse has this site with the 6 main passages (behind the cut tag) used to condemn homosexuality.
Genesis 19:5
Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13
Romans 1:26-27
I Corinthians 6:9;
I Timothy 1:9-10

http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/CoEvan/harm/GLBT.html#antiGayBible
This is a very comprehensive link site. Watch the popups since it's Angelfire.

Jesus himself never said anything about it. You'd think if it was a huge, pressing concern, he would have.

And interestingly, Judges 19, the story of the Levite's Concubine (which runs much as the tale of Sodom) is almost never included. Probably because the men who are there to rape the
Levite settle for the woman (a more acceptable target).



The first one is going to be Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19). The story runs that God decided to destroy Sodom, Gomorroah and 5 other cities because of their great wickedness. Abraham's nephew, Lot, was living in Sodom, and Abraham convinced God to spare Sodom if 10 righteous men could be found. 10 could not. God sent a pair of angels to get Lot and his family out of Sodom. The men of the city come to Lot's house and demand that he "bring out the strangers that we may know them." This is usually read to imply the men of Sodom wanted to have sex with the visitors. (I read it as wanting to rape them in order to establish territorial dominance, a la prison) Lot offered out his virgin daughters to the mob, but they refused. The visitors struck the men blind and hustled Lot and his family to safety.

The Law books:

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22 (New American Standard)

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." Leviticus 20:13 (New American Standard)





Romans 1:26-27 reads: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet"

This is juxtaposed with Roman paganism, which lends credence to the theory Paul is speaking of religious rites such as the Maeneads and Dionysian festivals.

1 Timothy 1:8-11
These verses include but a brief reference to homosexuality, but the context of that reference is again significant:

"But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, or the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."(18)

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
In this, the last we'll examine of three "new revelation" references dealing directly with homosexuality, Paul introduces a strong note of hope that, while homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven, and homosexuals can be "cleansed," "made whole" and "made right with God":

"...[D]o you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."(19)



Much of Paul's writing, and the pseudographia of the Pauline letters, is directed to specific churches with specific problems, and is not widely applicable to all churches in all situations. Hence, the appearance that Paul contradicts himself in places. If Church A has Problem A and Church B has Problem B, where B is the exact opposite of A, of course the advice is going to be diametrically opposite. Corinth is not Rome. Nor was all of the NT written by Paul. Many of the letters are attributed to Timothy wfriting in the style of Paul.

Comments

wuv you!

[chibisama.livejournal.com]

wasn't able to get to the computer until today, sorry aobut that...



thank you oh so very much... i just positively adore you now... your post has helped me a lot in deciding what i think about Christianity, the Lord, the Bible, homosexuality, and all that... i dont know how to thank you enough! Thank the Lord that i found you... You are wonderful.. *hugs*

Re: wuv you!

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I've been wrestling with the topic since I was 15.
I figurew if Jesus didn't say anything about it, it must not have been the overriding concern on his mind. He had plenty to say about hypocrisy, how to properly treat people, and what God was like.

The Bible is a product of its times. It is a loveletter, detaioling God's plan and provision for His people, but not everything that applied to ancient nomadic peoples is proper for modern post-industrial folks. And translation is never entirely accurate, but the important thing is the spirit of the book.

A really good book to read is called Stealing Jesus: How fundamentalism betrayed Christianity. It might be a bit much for you, or you may find it very liberating.

Re: wuv you!

[chibisama.livejournal.com]

im going to go find it tomorrow and get it... thank you so much.. and i completely agree with you... The whole stoning people to death was a bit much for me... but when i realized that God didn't really say as much as people make it to seem on the subject... i figured all was good.... my love for God wavered a little for a moment... but.. well... i love Him wholehearrtedly and compeltely now... *hugs*.. thank you for everything, you've been a blessing..!