Figured it out

[valarltd]

I am having a style problem w/ my co author. Please ignore axe murder threats. They come of being told "he reached in his pocket with his hands" or "a whistle from a man's lips" or being told the floor is down or asked to clarify where the zipper on a jumpsuit is.

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Comments

[m-barnette.livejournal.com]

*facepalm*

Really?

For the love of little green apples... What else would you reach into your pocket with? A pair of pliers? Lobster claws? Your left foot?

And, in my experience, yes, the floor is usually 'down' from most people's perspectives. Unless the house is sitting on it's roof, which isn't a common situation.

And I thought I used to have a problem with Auburnimp's descriptions--or, more often, a total lack thereof. I'll take her lapsing into 1940s movie mob talk in a 2048AD cyberpunk to 'a whistle from male lips' anytime.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

My response was exactly that: what is he reaching with his foot? I don't think he's that flexible. And "what the hell else would he whistle with, his ass?"

It's the usual problem of implied knowledge default values and connotation. I figure it's because he's used to power gamers who try to outthink him at every turn that he feels the need to overexplain.

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

You might want to send him to the Tumblr "Reasoning with Vampires," as if you were just linking to it for its own sake.

Some poor, unfortunate soul is going through all Twilight books, pulling out examples of stylistic awkwardness of that sort, and highlighting them. It's fun and informative, and after he's read a bit, he may start getting more careful in his own wordsmithing.

The D-Man Replies...

[(Anonymous)]

Hmmmm... So in your collective (and apparently limited) life/world experiences:

A.) You have -never- fished anything out of a pocket with your fingers, or a finger tip, as opposed to needing to put your whole hand in the pocket (which might be shallow or deep or compartmented) to grope for, grasp & extract the desired item(s)? You have never lost an item in a pocket, which you know is in there--you can feel it against your skin--but for some reason your probing fingers sent in to get it can't find it, therefore you (again) need to use and thus commit to service the whole hand to go in after it... and still maybe & irritatingly come up empty?

B.) You have -never- seen anyone put fingers in their mouth or to their lips to whistle through (the result from my experiences with such usually being particularly shrill, more so than just using the lips alone to whistle with)? You have never heard anyone whistle through a gap in their teeth from a missing or broken tooth?

C.) You have -never- seen rooms, chambers, or platforms with multiple tiers, wherein it might & would be possible to move up or across to the floor?

If a gun-toting goon ever tells you to get down on the floor & you dare comment back, "Where else would the floor be?" ...You might & should expect to get pistol-whipped for being a smart ass.

=-=-=

It must be nice (albeit a tad tedious) to live in such a plain & simple world as you do. Mine tends to be more complex, multi-layered, and open to greater possibilities that might need to be accounted for.

Pardon me for sounding a bit indignant here, but yesss... I am used to dealing with power-gamers who require such levels of detail, as they tend to be a crafty lot who will use any opening or loose thread they can find to try and take advantage of situations--often to escape a bad and/or deadly scenario I just manipulated them into, or which they mistakenly or foolishly walked into. It is a hard habit to break. I also do not presume--as appears do many other authors--that readers are all of average or better intelligence, therefore (again, to my mind) requiring such levels of detail.

Re: The D-Man Replies...

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

A) Hand implies fingers. If you're reaching in with just your fingertips, this would be stated. Hand is the default of reach.

B) Mouth implies lips. If there are fingers or a device involved in the whistle, THEN you tell the reader that. And only if it is important.

C) Floor implies down. Only inform the readers if it is otherwise.
Goon point: Dialogue not narration. Dialogue is different, because people speak in colloquialisms and repetition

I assume readers have a baseline knowledge and are at least as smart as I am.
If you don't know who Cerberus is, you lack the general knowledge base to read my books and are not my target marcket.

Re: The D-Man Replies...

[(Anonymous)]

Not to be critical, but maybe insightful:

You say, "I assume readers have a baseline knowledge and are at least as smart as I am. If you don't know who Cerberus is, you lack the general knowledge base to read my books and are not my target market."

=-=-=

Ummm... Maybe this is (in part) why your readership & sales, which you lament & fret over not having, are so low? You write high-brow, so only those on your level can get with your program; I write low-brow... so virtually anybody can understand & share my vision--sometimes even stating the obvious. Naturally the 2 styles clash from time to time, but they can work together.

Oh, and we did try the com-link in the nose bit, as opposed to the ear, but the vibrations proved aggravating, and it kinda interfered with breathing. (*Joke*)

Re: The D-Man Replies...

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I write things with titles like "Thigh to Thigh" and "Curse of the Pharaoh's Manicurists" Hardly high brow.

I expect a basic 3rd grade education and a 5th grade reading level (typical of my work). FYI, you're the one jacking the reading level of Hard Reboot to 9th grade with compound and run on sentences.



My sales are low for a number of reasons:
Bad economy. My sales plummetted, across the board, in spring 2010 and have not recovered.
Nothing new from my high-sale publisher
Most recent novel doesn't fit neatly into a genre, and isn't strictly m/m so
there are problems getting reviewers
Aside from the problem novel, not much new in the last year and a half. Except for the VERY new stuff.

Since Jan 2011, I have had 14 pieces in 18 months. 1 of them a novel, one a reprint collection. And three of them just came out this month. Numbers have been very good on 2, some will never have numbers because I got a flat fee and others are just not hot genres.

Re: The D-Man Replies...

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Also The machine bleeped. A blank monotone mechanical voice transmitted over the com-link in Bree's ear.

Really? It's not in her nose?
We're in her point of view and have been for a couple chapters. The reader knows whose ear the comlink is in.

The D-Man Checks In

[(Anonymous)]

Sooooo... Nobody has ever seen jump suits & cat suits with zippers on the arms, legs, down the front, down the back, over the breasts, and/or around the waist? I have. I've also seen ultra sexy cat suits and jump suits with zippers down the front that went from the neck to the sternum... to the navel, and to the crotch.

Do I need to send you a BDSM clothing catalogue?

Re: The D-Man Checks In

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

Again, if there is a deviation from the default THEN you tell the reader.

Jumpsuit: one piece garment that fastens in the front. This is the baseline knowledge. If it varies from this, describe. Otherwise, the reader gets the impression you think they are too dumb to know the basics.