101 Games Fundies Play
Aug. 9th, 2005 04:45 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
valarltdGames Fundies Play: Copyrighted by John Richards 2005
1. "I'm OK. You're a horrible sinner!" The fundie has been busy castigating others for their "sins" when it comes out that he himself has been committing rather serious sins. He then trots out the "everyone sins" message to absolve himself of responsibility, as if HIS sins are completely unimportant because "everyone does it", then continues lambasting others for their "sins".
2. "Oops! Wrong victim!" The fundie has been screaming at someone for some imagined "sin". When it turns out that the person has NOT committed that particular "sin", rather than apologize, they trot out the "everyone sins" message in order to claim that the other person must have done SOME sin, so he deserved the tongue-lashing anyway. It is a way of avoiding personal responsibility for their own mistake.
3. The "False Modesty" gambit. The fundie claims he sins because, after all, EVERYONE sins. It's a beautiful sublimation. "Everybody sins, therefore I'm not all that ugly after all." Then, after selling his credentials as the winner of the most humble contest, he begins assaulting everyone else for being sinners.
4. "You're no better than I am, you horrible sinner!" The everyone sins message is used as a tactic to tear down someone who appears to be good, and of whom no one has anything bad to say other than the poster. It is a "I am as good as he is because he sins too" comment.
5. "Sin of the Day" -- The person claims that the particular "sin of the day" (currently this appears to be homosexuality) is more awful than anything else in all recorded history, and continues his rant while ignoring his own faults.
6. The Magic Decoder Ring ploy is used to make the fundie feel good about running away from an argument in which he is being trounced. They say something like: " I wouldn't expect the unsaved - who doesn't know the Word of God - to understand a Godly concept.'
7. "The Unnatural Two-Step". A gay-basher shows up declaring that homosexuality is "unnatural". He is provided with overwhelming proof that homosexuality occurs in nature frequently, and so is perfectly natural. He then responds with a: "EEEUUUUUWWWW!!!! You say you are like an ANIMAL??!! UGH!! YUCK!!! YOU ARE COMPARING HOMOSEXUALS TO ANIMALS!!!!! Ugh!! So you are ANIMALS, unlike us pure heterosexuals who never do ANYTHING that animals do! PASS THE SMELLING SALTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
8. The "grace vs. law" argument. To explain why none of the old testament applies to THEM, they will say that everyone is under grace, so they don't have to worry about it. This does not stop them from hand-picking their misinterpretations of Old Testament passages to apply to OTHERS because that is "guidance (which applies to others, but not to them).
9. The "Volume and repetition are always a substitute for facts and logic." game. The fundie blithely ignores all the facts presented and just continues sinscreaming.
10. Sinscreaming. The "You horrible sinners are going to HELL!" argument. Apparently they think this can make up for a lack of a rational response.
11. "Selective Blindness" -- otherwise known as: "The Bible must be wrong because it doesn't agree with what I have been taught" argument. This is part and parcel of the "The words don't really mean what they say" argument.
12. "You're all picking on me." Frequently used when the fundie gets disagreement from so many well-documented sources and so many different people that he feels a bit lost in his own ability to support any of his own opinions.
13. The "imploding fundie" gambit involves nonstop insult and obscenity laced messages, used to show that they are at the end of their rope and are completely irrational and unable to defend their opinions.
14. You're deliberately misreading my words" when their words are being reposted back to them, and they don't like the logical conclusion being drawn -- by which time they tend to segue into "You're all picking on me"
15. The "pre-martyr". This character is so obsessed with becoming a martyr that he keeps up an ongoing commentary on how horribly he is going to be treated sometime in the future.
16. The self-martyr. This one usually hits his stride in his 2nd post whining about how horribly he is being treated for speaking "the truth". Some go overboard and start it with their first post even before getting any responses. See "pre-martyr".
17. The "HOC maneuver." It's going ballistic prematurely, aggressively, and seemingly without reason, with the intention of chasing the other person away. Usually the other guy never gets a chance to talk before he's hounded out of the space.
18. "I am being unfairly censored!" This is just a subset of the self-martyr when personally abusive parts of their posts get edited.
19. "My rights are being trampled!" This comes out when people point out that their nonstop abuse of others is not well received. Somehow they think that they have the right to assault, but the victim is not allowed to defend himself without trampling his rights.
20. "I am above the rules and the law!" Make the subject rules, staff, and the unfairness of enforcement. This is again a subset of the self-martyr.
21. Make the thread about who said what and in which message so it turns into an endless game of "you said, he said" without once addressing the actual issues.
22. "Holy Anger" -- the fundie will claim that hatred anger and violence is perfectly fine as long as it is "holy" anger, hatred and
violence directed at his "enemies". The fundie is incapable of seeing that this is identical to the approach of extremist Islamic terrorists because they are not "Christian".
23. "It's my mission to preach to you." This justifies nonstop hounding of "sinners". Naturally the fundie is unalterably opposed to anyone preaching to him, or even correcting his errors.
24. "I already said I refuted that!" in response to something they couldn't respond to before and still can't. They think no one will notice that if they could refute it before, they could do it now. They are now too embarrassed to repeat what has already been thoroughly debunked, because they don't want people to see the refutation again.
25. "That isn't what it means" with no explanation is really considered a valid response from fundies. Apparently they don't know what they mean either.
26. glubies, pl.n - encouraging, congratulatory and essentially cheesy remarks about how well they're doing exchanged between Fundies who are being thoroughly trounced in debate
27. "Jesus isn't important. PAUL is the one with all the answers who CLARIFIED Jesus." They can't support themselves with in-context words of Paul either, but this allows them to actively oppose the words of Jesus Christ and still call themselves Christians.
28. "Facts and analysis are malarkey" approach to a discussion. Instead of addressing the points raised, merely keep repeating (with no evidence or rationale) that the opposing argument is "nonsense. Interesting enough, THIS particular version is usually used when discussing scientific matters such as evolution, with the claim that THEIR approach is "scientific".
29. The "I REALLY want to discuss this topic but..." response. Somehow the fundie, who spends perhaps 12 hours a day online, spends the entire post talking about himself and how he does not have enough time to answer the question. He tries to imply that all the other posters are retired millionaires with nothing else to do but make him look bad.
30. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" "What I provided in response to your earlier post wasn't meant to have anything to do with what we are discussing so stop asking me why I gave it." This one is really funny to watch as the fundie continues to run from his own example, and from all requests to provide one that IS relevant.
31. The "the buck stops waaaaaaaay over there" ploy, where they claim that they can't explain their own opinions so you should go talk to someone else about what they mean. You don't expect them to understand their own statements, do you?
32. "Manna was made out of cornbread!" In this fun exercise, the fundie makes a claim that is so extremely stupid that it immediately sidetracks the entire discussion. The idea is to get people so interested in pointing out that corn was not even introduced to the region until thousands of years later that they forget about the real discussion and the fundie's complete inability to support his opinion. This allows the fundie to make the same false statement later on and claim that he was never refuted before.
33. The "The Bible means what *I* want it to mean" game. The Bible doesn't really say what it meant or mean what it said. It MEANT to limit (or expand) the words much more than actual words do. This argument usually shows up as soon as anyone actually looks at the verses the fundie is using to abuse others.
34. Jesus isn't really that important to Christianity, so what he says doesn't count. I have some other passages that say that Jesus is wrong here. Fundies usually avoid the words of Jesus Christ at all costs, and any attempt to get them to see what JESUS said will be rapidly deflected.
35. "I am not a fundie!. In spite of all evidence to the contrary, a fundie will frequently claim that he is NOT a fundie. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and lays eggs like a duck, it is probably a duck.
36. The "Opinions of bigots take priority over anything -- even the Bible" argument. Well, none of the OTHER bigots I know accept that the words mean what they say.
37. The foul mouth syndrome. Maybe if I use a bunch of foul language to describe what Jesus said, and spew a bit more hate and raw bigotry, no one will notice that I don't have a valid response.
38. The "The Pharisees were right!" response. You would be surprised how often fundies actually quote the PHARISEES as their justification. One favorite: "You were born totally in sin".
39. The "Accuse everyone else of what *I* am doing" game. Fundies think that if they accuse others of what THEY are doing, no one will notice their hypocrisy.
40. The "I said something really brilliant in another forum on this subject so I am right" ploy. They never seem capable of repeating that brilliance for some reason, in spite of numerous requests that they do so.
41. "Defending yourself against me is intolerance". Somehow fundies seem unable to understand the concept that self defense (against them) is justified.
42. "You will never 'get it"!" This game disparages someone who has just blown them away in debate by whining to another fundie that he "will never get it". Naturally again there is nothing to back up his opinion.
43. The magic spell: "CONTEXT!" This is game is usually played AFTER the fundie has just received a refutation of his position in FULL context. Naturally he provides none of his own. The fundie seems to think that the word "context" is a magic spell that makes valid arguments disappear without having to waste time on facts or reason.
44. The "Blame the Victim" ploy is quite common among fundies. Most fundies are pretty ignorant of Jesus Christ, so do not know that he disapproves of that tactic.
45. The "Dr. Fox syndrome" was invented by a fraud who gave a speech composed almost exclusively of buzzwords. Use of large and obscure words tends to lead people to increase their estimation of the erudition of the speaker, especially if the meaning of the speech is also obscure. Most fundies don't have the charisma or word skills to carry it off.
46. The "Music Man" gambit -- from the movie of the same name. It includes "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" and "We've got trouble, right here in River City". It usually starts off with getting hysterical about some non-problem, appealing to people's fears about their children, and then gets used to sell something.
47. The "Humpty Dumpty syndrome", wherein a word means precisely what the fundie wants it to mean, not what the dictionary says.
48. The "Spoiled Brat" ploy. The fundie raves over how "special" he must be since people are paying attention to him. Apparently his real life is so barren of human contact that this is the best he can get.
49. The "Let's pretend we were discussing something else" ploy. When the fundie finds he has nothing to stand on, he suddenly starts pretending we are discussing a DIFFERENT verse.
50. There is also the ever popular "Bible Roulette" game. When a fundie has nowhere to go, he will pull a verse at complete random out of the Bible and say: "There! This proves my point!"
51. The 'he who yells the loudest, is the rightest' ploy. This normally involves putting their entire post in caps, perhaps with artificially enlarged text.
52. The "Fundie Blinders" game. The biggest problem with fundies is that they NEVER look at the full context, even when it is laid out for them. They just start exactly where they are told to start, stop exactly where they are told to stop, and carefully ignore everything else. Then they are given a hate-filled misinterpretation of the tiny verse-fragment they have torn out of context and will never be shaken from that twisting of scripture no matter what.
53. "The Bible Made me Do It" game. In this one the fundie realizes that the message he is pushing is so foul and evil that even he can't bring himself to admit that he supports it. Instead of taking personal responsibility for it and saying he AGREES with it, he instead says: "I am merely repeating what the bible says." By doing so he is slandering God and Christianity.
54. The 'flounce' is the announcement that they are leaving the forum and the discussion, never ever to return. The "flounce" is also applied to individuals with a "I will never speak to you again!" proclamation. Unfortunately they never follow through. It is just a play for attention.
55. the "watchman" game. The person claimed that if they don't go around proselytizing in the most abusive way possible, God will personally see that they go to hell, no matter how good their life has been otherwise.
56. "Holy Marketing". This is the religious equivalent of telemarketing or popup ads on the internet. The idea is to inundate all media with their message so that nothing else can be seen.
57. The "I am merely a puppet." game. For this one the fundie spews some hate-filled message in his or her own words, then claims they are merely "repeating what the bible says". In most cases they are unable to find ANYTHING in the Bible having anything to do with their hate-filled statement, and when they do it never says what they claim it does.
58. "The Big Lie". Most fundie statements involve use of "The Big Lie". They just repeat some hate-filled piece of sewage over and over again so often they think people will believe it just because of repetition.
59, The "I curse you!" ploy. The person begins gloating over how much pain someone will be in as if he personally is causing it through his own magical actions. This is closely related to the "hand me a pitchfork" game, which is actually a subset of "I curse you".
60. The "Hand me a pitchfork" ploy. In this version, the fundie gloats about how much fun he is going to have looking down on the sinners in hell, perhaps pouring some of the boiling oil or poking them with pitchforks himself. He never stops to think who it is who hands out the pitchforks, or if perhaps that entity has other ideas in mind for him.
61. The "Spouse Abuse" ploy. While spewing the most foul venom imaginable at someone, they end up with: "I do love you".
62. The "Not a Real Christian" game. In general, anyone who does meet their very narrow definition is "not a Christian". If we believed all of them, NO ONE would be a Christian. One of the funnier variations is when one of their very favorite "Christians" who talks and acts JUST like they do gets caught in some criminal activity where they abused their religious standing (perhaps beating a child to death following the "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing a bit too far). Then THEY aren't "really Christians" either.
63. "Christians don't sin the way others do." Somehow "Christians" become some sort of super-race without the failings of mere mortals. So they claim that "everyone sins" but Christian's sins aren't as bad as non-Christians.
64. The "Everything is possible if you just believe and pray hard enough" game. If you really believe you can make water run uphill. Why don't "I" pray for water to run uphill? Because we who are truly enlightened do not need to demonstrate our abilities to unbelievers.
65. "The Titanic Cannot Sink" ploy. The fundie uses this one when absolute proof has been provided that he is wrong. Rather than admit error, he just insists it is true because something SAYS it is true. One can talk as much as he can of all the wonderful safety features that make it impossible for the Titanic to sink, but there it is at the bottom of the ocean. This comes up most when the "everyone sins" message is challenged. The Bible is filled with people who, according to the Bible and Jesus, did not sin. Even one example of someone who did not sin is proof that the "everyone sins" message is false. There's the Titanic, sitting at the bottom of the ocean.
66. "Speaking in Tongues". For some reason there are a number of fundies that will lapse into complete gibberish when holding a conversation. Somehow gibberish seems more empowering to them, though I am not sure what they expect..
67. The "Kicking the shmoo" game. Fundies are usually under the impression that everyone but themselves are "shmoos". A "shmoo" was a mythical creature from the "Little Abner" cartoons. http://www.deniskitchen.com/docs/new_shmoofacts.html A shmoo always loves to be kicked around and just LOVES anyone who kicks them. Fundies have a hard time believing that anyone they assault isn't a shmoo who should be SO thankful for the abuse!
68. The "Cafeteria Christian" gambit, in which the fundie in question picks one piece from the Old Testament to apply to everyone else, but will nosh on rabbit fricassee, ham sandwiches, and shrimp cocktail with gleeful abandon on their way for a shave and a haircut in a poly-cotton blend shirt.
69. "Sin for Jesus", otherwise known as the "Jesus will dry up and blow away if we don't go around sinning, so sin for Jesus!" ploy. Why Jesus would suddenly disappear if someone wasn't sinning is never really explained but they really believe that if even one person did not sin, Christianity would dry up and blow away.
70. The "Free Speech Fallacy". "Anyone who does not agree with me is against free speech!" Somehow a fundie cannot get it through his head that free speech means OTHERS can have their say too.
71. The "Opinion Fallacy" holds that all opinions are the equal of all other opinions regardless of whether they're valid or not. If something is called 'opinion' it cannot be subject to criticism and/or ridicule.
72. The "God'll Get You Anyway" game. You may not be doing such and such, but because you won't agree with the fundie that it's a sin, the fundie points out that God will send you to hell anyway, mostly for disagreeing with the fundie.
73. BEGGING THE QUESTION, an argument in which the conclusion is implied or already assumed in the premise. Also said to be a circular argument. For example, a fundie will find a passage that condemns sin in general, claim that this covers his particular "sin of the day", and offer that as his PROOF that his "sin of the day" is actually a sin.
74. The RED HERRING, introduction of an irrelevant issue into a discussion as a smokescreen. It is a tactic designed to divert attention from the issue at hand. There are numerous variations on this tactic, but the underlying idea is that if they KNOW they have lost the debate and feel that the only hope is to distract people from noticing the obvious.
75. The FALSE ANALOGY, an unsound form of inductive argument in which an argument relies heavily on a weak or irrelevant analogy to prove its point. The fundie usually gets quite upset when his analogy is carried to its logical conclusion, or else is modified to make it a more accurate representation of the actual facts.
76. "I don't HAVE to know what the Bible says!" This is based on the idea that they are so spiritually evolved that they know more about the Bible and God than anyone else, so it doesn't matter if their opinions are directly contradicted by the Bible. This is certainly a prime example of the sin of Hubris.
77. "Pascal's Wager" tries to tie belief in the Christian God to self-interest rather than evidence. It is based on the premise that God will do horrible things to you if you don't believe in him without any evidence of his existence. Unfortunately, the Christian God can undoubtedly see through such a selfish attempt. He would probably condemn people to hell who went through the motions of belief just on the off chance God might torture them for eternity if they didn't. This is a variant of the "curse-you" game in which the fundie attempts to blame God for the misery you are allegedly sure to suffer in the afterlife based on their beliefs.
78. The "Fundie Circle Jerk". In this one, the fundie starts off claiming that some passage supports his opposition to his favorite "sin of the day" and starts bashing people with it. When it is proven that the passage does NOT support him, he starts whining that some OTHER passage "proves" that the original passage supports his opinion. When THAT one is proven wrong, he runs to another, and then another, and keeps going until he returns to the original, apparently completely unaware that he has failed in every instance to support his position. Then the fundie circle-jerk starts up again and keeps going.
79. "Agumentum ad furious assertion" involves the fundie asserting the same thing over and over again without any proof, acting indignant that anyone could POSSIBLY think they are wrong.
80. "Dognity" -- an attempt by a fundie to pretend that spouting bigoted dogma instantly infuses hate speech with dignity.
81. "Freedom of Speech Doublespeak" -- in this game, the fundie starts a mad tirade about how anyone who opposes his viewpoint is against "freedom of speech" and should be forced to shut up. This is normally because the opposing views are so compelling that he thinks silencing the opposition is the only option he has left.
82. "Moving the goal posts" -- in this interesting game the fundie makes some bald statement, like "Nothing has ever been left out of any Bible". After numerous counterexamples he keeps excluding things from what he originally said until the word "nothing" finally morphs into something like: "nothing that was needed for the purpose of many purpose which can be reasonably be construed as Christian was left out".
83. "Self defense is no defense" -- Apparently fundies get their talking points from some really sick source, and suddenly all of them are using it. This is their latest attempt to tie up the internet with specious garbage. Their victims are supposed to lie down on the ground and thank the fundies for beating them because anything less would be "intolerance", "opposing free speech", and "persecution" of the fundies.
84. "Semantic Deception" One of the many dishonest games Fundies play, this one is in reference to the habit of making the Bible say what they want it to say. When a Fundie is confronted with an obvious contradiction or biblical problem, he will often claim that the accuser is taking a verse out of context. Interestingly, Fundies are known for taking verses out of context, and are incapable of showing what context has been missed.
85. "You aren't worthy". In this fundie game, the fundie claims that a poster who clearly knows a LOT more about the subject than he does isn't "worthy" of a debate because the other person isn't a "real Christian" or "saved" or "born again" etc. This allows the fundie to play "holier than thou" while still running from the discussion.
86. The "neo-Pharisee" ploy involves inaccurately interpreting a Bible passage so narrowly that the fundie claims it doesn't apply to them. For example, many fundies will claim that the word "NOTHING" means "everything except food".
87. "Unikronicity": the act of declaring oneself "different from all those others" and then using the same tactics against a population they supposedly are sympathetic to. This usually starts out as: "I am not a homophobe, but..."
88. "I'll get back to you on that, but I have an answer...." The fundie never does, of course, because he does NOT have an answer. This is just one of many ways of avoiding admitting that he was wrong while pretending to be knowledgeable.
89. "Dead bigots must know what they are talking about". In this ploy, the fundie refers to the opinions of dead bigots to support his own bigotry. Naturally the dead bigots could not provide anything to back up their opinions either, but that does not seem to matter.
90. "Old News". also known as: "You aren't allowed to use my own words against me!" In this fundie ploy, the fundie will have made a number of statements which HE claims are absolutely true. When it is pointed out later that this completely contradicts what he is saying now, he will get very huffy about using something he himself said BEFORE to refute what he is saying NOW.
91. "Snapping". In this game, the fundie will send post after mindless post after post to someone who has blown him away in debate saying: "Why don't you respond?" What he hopes no one notices is that he has changed the recipient of the posts to be "all" or himself, so the original poster may never see what he says.
92. "The Armour of God". When a fundie is presented with irrefutable facts that prove that he is completely mistaken about one of his opinions, he would loudly proclaim that he is putting on his "armour of God". Apparently the "armour of God" is purposeful ignorance, and the fundie is incapable of showing any difference between the "armour of God" and purposeful ignorance.
93. "Perseveration" This is the fundie version of perseverance. It's when they keep doing the same thing, over and over, even if it's not working, and appears completely idiotic to everyone else.
94. "Projective Defensiveness". In this fundie game, the fundie engages in an unrelenting assault on another poster with a series of false and malicious accusations. When the person being assaulted counters the accusations with facts, the fundie crows: "You're becoming defensive now!"
95. "Christianity = ignorance, violence, hate and bigotry". Whenever anyone opposes the fundie's messages of violence, hatred and bigotry, they will claim that the person is "attacking Christians". Since this would only be true if ALL Christians promoted violence, hatred and bigotry, the fundie is in effect claiming that Christianity IS ignorance, violence, hatred and bigotry.
96. "Murder, rape, and stealing is fun!" Fundies will frequently try and claim that without their particular brand of religion everyone would murder, rape, steal etc. because it is so much FUN! The fact that these people think that violent crimes are fun tells a lot more about them than it does about anyone else.
97. "If we're going to try to mislead people for Christ, we need to get our stories straight." In this fundie game, one fundie will make an outrageous and false claim to try and "prove" himself right. As he gets blown away, other fundies will jump in claiming that the first fundie was absolutely right. Sometimes they get themselves confused and wind up proving the opposite instead.
98. "Fundamentalism = ignorance, violence, hate and bigotry". Whenever someone is successfully opposing the hate-filled messages of fundies, and they have failed in their attempts to pretend that opposing their bigotry is opposing all Christians, they then fall back on claiming that the person opposing their dishonest tactics are opposing all fundamentalists, even though fundies are no more fundamentalists than stick insects are sticks.
99. "Memory Loss". The fundie will be provided with absolute proof that he is mistaken about some fact, and moments later he will be once again making the same discredited claim as if he never heard the refutation before. He will also deny that the refutation has ever even been given.
100. "Dropping turds in the punchbowl". In this fundie game, the fundie will show up at a forum of "sinners", drop off some obnoxious sinscreaming posts, and then disappear, never responding to any answers. After all, HE would never drink from something he had befouled that way.
101. "Delusions of grandeur". This fundie game imvolves taking on a screen name the fundie hopes will impress the gullible while spewing some of the most vile and hate-filled messages imaginable either in forums or chat rooms. The screen name could be anything from a favorite verse used to abuse others, a description of a truly religious person or, in an act of ultimate hubris, "God".
1. "I'm OK. You're a horrible sinner!" The fundie has been busy castigating others for their "sins" when it comes out that he himself has been committing rather serious sins. He then trots out the "everyone sins" message to absolve himself of responsibility, as if HIS sins are completely unimportant because "everyone does it", then continues lambasting others for their "sins".
2. "Oops! Wrong victim!" The fundie has been screaming at someone for some imagined "sin". When it turns out that the person has NOT committed that particular "sin", rather than apologize, they trot out the "everyone sins" message in order to claim that the other person must have done SOME sin, so he deserved the tongue-lashing anyway. It is a way of avoiding personal responsibility for their own mistake.
3. The "False Modesty" gambit. The fundie claims he sins because, after all, EVERYONE sins. It's a beautiful sublimation. "Everybody sins, therefore I'm not all that ugly after all." Then, after selling his credentials as the winner of the most humble contest, he begins assaulting everyone else for being sinners.
4. "You're no better than I am, you horrible sinner!" The everyone sins message is used as a tactic to tear down someone who appears to be good, and of whom no one has anything bad to say other than the poster. It is a "I am as good as he is because he sins too" comment.
5. "Sin of the Day" -- The person claims that the particular "sin of the day" (currently this appears to be homosexuality) is more awful than anything else in all recorded history, and continues his rant while ignoring his own faults.
6. The Magic Decoder Ring ploy is used to make the fundie feel good about running away from an argument in which he is being trounced. They say something like: " I wouldn't expect the unsaved - who doesn't know the Word of God - to understand a Godly concept.'
7. "The Unnatural Two-Step". A gay-basher shows up declaring that homosexuality is "unnatural". He is provided with overwhelming proof that homosexuality occurs in nature frequently, and so is perfectly natural. He then responds with a: "EEEUUUUUWWWW!!!! You say you are like an ANIMAL??!! UGH!! YUCK!!! YOU ARE COMPARING HOMOSEXUALS TO ANIMALS!!!!! Ugh!! So you are ANIMALS, unlike us pure heterosexuals who never do ANYTHING that animals do! PASS THE SMELLING SALTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
8. The "grace vs. law" argument. To explain why none of the old testament applies to THEM, they will say that everyone is under grace, so they don't have to worry about it. This does not stop them from hand-picking their misinterpretations of Old Testament passages to apply to OTHERS because that is "guidance (which applies to others, but not to them).
9. The "Volume and repetition are always a substitute for facts and logic." game. The fundie blithely ignores all the facts presented and just continues sinscreaming.
10. Sinscreaming. The "You horrible sinners are going to HELL!" argument. Apparently they think this can make up for a lack of a rational response.
11. "Selective Blindness" -- otherwise known as: "The Bible must be wrong because it doesn't agree with what I have been taught" argument. This is part and parcel of the "The words don't really mean what they say" argument.
12. "You're all picking on me." Frequently used when the fundie gets disagreement from so many well-documented sources and so many different people that he feels a bit lost in his own ability to support any of his own opinions.
13. The "imploding fundie" gambit involves nonstop insult and obscenity laced messages, used to show that they are at the end of their rope and are completely irrational and unable to defend their opinions.
14. You're deliberately misreading my words" when their words are being reposted back to them, and they don't like the logical conclusion being drawn -- by which time they tend to segue into "You're all picking on me"
15. The "pre-martyr". This character is so obsessed with becoming a martyr that he keeps up an ongoing commentary on how horribly he is going to be treated sometime in the future.
16. The self-martyr. This one usually hits his stride in his 2nd post whining about how horribly he is being treated for speaking "the truth". Some go overboard and start it with their first post even before getting any responses. See "pre-martyr".
17. The "HOC maneuver." It's going ballistic prematurely, aggressively, and seemingly without reason, with the intention of chasing the other person away. Usually the other guy never gets a chance to talk before he's hounded out of the space.
18. "I am being unfairly censored!" This is just a subset of the self-martyr when personally abusive parts of their posts get edited.
19. "My rights are being trampled!" This comes out when people point out that their nonstop abuse of others is not well received. Somehow they think that they have the right to assault, but the victim is not allowed to defend himself without trampling his rights.
20. "I am above the rules and the law!" Make the subject rules, staff, and the unfairness of enforcement. This is again a subset of the self-martyr.
21. Make the thread about who said what and in which message so it turns into an endless game of "you said, he said" without once addressing the actual issues.
22. "Holy Anger" -- the fundie will claim that hatred anger and violence is perfectly fine as long as it is "holy" anger, hatred and
violence directed at his "enemies". The fundie is incapable of seeing that this is identical to the approach of extremist Islamic terrorists because they are not "Christian".
23. "It's my mission to preach to you." This justifies nonstop hounding of "sinners". Naturally the fundie is unalterably opposed to anyone preaching to him, or even correcting his errors.
24. "I already said I refuted that!" in response to something they couldn't respond to before and still can't. They think no one will notice that if they could refute it before, they could do it now. They are now too embarrassed to repeat what has already been thoroughly debunked, because they don't want people to see the refutation again.
25. "That isn't what it means" with no explanation is really considered a valid response from fundies. Apparently they don't know what they mean either.
26. glubies, pl.n - encouraging, congratulatory and essentially cheesy remarks about how well they're doing exchanged between Fundies who are being thoroughly trounced in debate
27. "Jesus isn't important. PAUL is the one with all the answers who CLARIFIED Jesus." They can't support themselves with in-context words of Paul either, but this allows them to actively oppose the words of Jesus Christ and still call themselves Christians.
28. "Facts and analysis are malarkey" approach to a discussion. Instead of addressing the points raised, merely keep repeating (with no evidence or rationale) that the opposing argument is "nonsense. Interesting enough, THIS particular version is usually used when discussing scientific matters such as evolution, with the claim that THEIR approach is "scientific".
29. The "I REALLY want to discuss this topic but..." response. Somehow the fundie, who spends perhaps 12 hours a day online, spends the entire post talking about himself and how he does not have enough time to answer the question. He tries to imply that all the other posters are retired millionaires with nothing else to do but make him look bad.
30. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" "What I provided in response to your earlier post wasn't meant to have anything to do with what we are discussing so stop asking me why I gave it." This one is really funny to watch as the fundie continues to run from his own example, and from all requests to provide one that IS relevant.
31. The "the buck stops waaaaaaaay over there" ploy, where they claim that they can't explain their own opinions so you should go talk to someone else about what they mean. You don't expect them to understand their own statements, do you?
32. "Manna was made out of cornbread!" In this fun exercise, the fundie makes a claim that is so extremely stupid that it immediately sidetracks the entire discussion. The idea is to get people so interested in pointing out that corn was not even introduced to the region until thousands of years later that they forget about the real discussion and the fundie's complete inability to support his opinion. This allows the fundie to make the same false statement later on and claim that he was never refuted before.
33. The "The Bible means what *I* want it to mean" game. The Bible doesn't really say what it meant or mean what it said. It MEANT to limit (or expand) the words much more than actual words do. This argument usually shows up as soon as anyone actually looks at the verses the fundie is using to abuse others.
34. Jesus isn't really that important to Christianity, so what he says doesn't count. I have some other passages that say that Jesus is wrong here. Fundies usually avoid the words of Jesus Christ at all costs, and any attempt to get them to see what JESUS said will be rapidly deflected.
35. "I am not a fundie!. In spite of all evidence to the contrary, a fundie will frequently claim that he is NOT a fundie. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and lays eggs like a duck, it is probably a duck.
36. The "Opinions of bigots take priority over anything -- even the Bible" argument. Well, none of the OTHER bigots I know accept that the words mean what they say.
37. The foul mouth syndrome. Maybe if I use a bunch of foul language to describe what Jesus said, and spew a bit more hate and raw bigotry, no one will notice that I don't have a valid response.
38. The "The Pharisees were right!" response. You would be surprised how often fundies actually quote the PHARISEES as their justification. One favorite: "You were born totally in sin".
39. The "Accuse everyone else of what *I* am doing" game. Fundies think that if they accuse others of what THEY are doing, no one will notice their hypocrisy.
40. The "I said something really brilliant in another forum on this subject so I am right" ploy. They never seem capable of repeating that brilliance for some reason, in spite of numerous requests that they do so.
41. "Defending yourself against me is intolerance". Somehow fundies seem unable to understand the concept that self defense (against them) is justified.
42. "You will never 'get it"!" This game disparages someone who has just blown them away in debate by whining to another fundie that he "will never get it". Naturally again there is nothing to back up his opinion.
43. The magic spell: "CONTEXT!" This is game is usually played AFTER the fundie has just received a refutation of his position in FULL context. Naturally he provides none of his own. The fundie seems to think that the word "context" is a magic spell that makes valid arguments disappear without having to waste time on facts or reason.
44. The "Blame the Victim" ploy is quite common among fundies. Most fundies are pretty ignorant of Jesus Christ, so do not know that he disapproves of that tactic.
45. The "Dr. Fox syndrome" was invented by a fraud who gave a speech composed almost exclusively of buzzwords. Use of large and obscure words tends to lead people to increase their estimation of the erudition of the speaker, especially if the meaning of the speech is also obscure. Most fundies don't have the charisma or word skills to carry it off.
46. The "Music Man" gambit -- from the movie of the same name. It includes "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" and "We've got trouble, right here in River City". It usually starts off with getting hysterical about some non-problem, appealing to people's fears about their children, and then gets used to sell something.
47. The "Humpty Dumpty syndrome", wherein a word means precisely what the fundie wants it to mean, not what the dictionary says.
48. The "Spoiled Brat" ploy. The fundie raves over how "special" he must be since people are paying attention to him. Apparently his real life is so barren of human contact that this is the best he can get.
49. The "Let's pretend we were discussing something else" ploy. When the fundie finds he has nothing to stand on, he suddenly starts pretending we are discussing a DIFFERENT verse.
50. There is also the ever popular "Bible Roulette" game. When a fundie has nowhere to go, he will pull a verse at complete random out of the Bible and say: "There! This proves my point!"
51. The 'he who yells the loudest, is the rightest' ploy. This normally involves putting their entire post in caps, perhaps with artificially enlarged text.
52. The "Fundie Blinders" game. The biggest problem with fundies is that they NEVER look at the full context, even when it is laid out for them. They just start exactly where they are told to start, stop exactly where they are told to stop, and carefully ignore everything else. Then they are given a hate-filled misinterpretation of the tiny verse-fragment they have torn out of context and will never be shaken from that twisting of scripture no matter what.
53. "The Bible Made me Do It" game. In this one the fundie realizes that the message he is pushing is so foul and evil that even he can't bring himself to admit that he supports it. Instead of taking personal responsibility for it and saying he AGREES with it, he instead says: "I am merely repeating what the bible says." By doing so he is slandering God and Christianity.
54. The 'flounce' is the announcement that they are leaving the forum and the discussion, never ever to return. The "flounce" is also applied to individuals with a "I will never speak to you again!" proclamation. Unfortunately they never follow through. It is just a play for attention.
55. the "watchman" game. The person claimed that if they don't go around proselytizing in the most abusive way possible, God will personally see that they go to hell, no matter how good their life has been otherwise.
56. "Holy Marketing". This is the religious equivalent of telemarketing or popup ads on the internet. The idea is to inundate all media with their message so that nothing else can be seen.
57. The "I am merely a puppet." game. For this one the fundie spews some hate-filled message in his or her own words, then claims they are merely "repeating what the bible says". In most cases they are unable to find ANYTHING in the Bible having anything to do with their hate-filled statement, and when they do it never says what they claim it does.
58. "The Big Lie". Most fundie statements involve use of "The Big Lie". They just repeat some hate-filled piece of sewage over and over again so often they think people will believe it just because of repetition.
59, The "I curse you!" ploy. The person begins gloating over how much pain someone will be in as if he personally is causing it through his own magical actions. This is closely related to the "hand me a pitchfork" game, which is actually a subset of "I curse you".
60. The "Hand me a pitchfork" ploy. In this version, the fundie gloats about how much fun he is going to have looking down on the sinners in hell, perhaps pouring some of the boiling oil or poking them with pitchforks himself. He never stops to think who it is who hands out the pitchforks, or if perhaps that entity has other ideas in mind for him.
61. The "Spouse Abuse" ploy. While spewing the most foul venom imaginable at someone, they end up with: "I do love you".
62. The "Not a Real Christian" game. In general, anyone who does meet their very narrow definition is "not a Christian". If we believed all of them, NO ONE would be a Christian. One of the funnier variations is when one of their very favorite "Christians" who talks and acts JUST like they do gets caught in some criminal activity where they abused their religious standing (perhaps beating a child to death following the "spare the rod and spoil the child" thing a bit too far). Then THEY aren't "really Christians" either.
63. "Christians don't sin the way others do." Somehow "Christians" become some sort of super-race without the failings of mere mortals. So they claim that "everyone sins" but Christian's sins aren't as bad as non-Christians.
64. The "Everything is possible if you just believe and pray hard enough" game. If you really believe you can make water run uphill. Why don't "I" pray for water to run uphill? Because we who are truly enlightened do not need to demonstrate our abilities to unbelievers.
65. "The Titanic Cannot Sink" ploy. The fundie uses this one when absolute proof has been provided that he is wrong. Rather than admit error, he just insists it is true because something SAYS it is true. One can talk as much as he can of all the wonderful safety features that make it impossible for the Titanic to sink, but there it is at the bottom of the ocean. This comes up most when the "everyone sins" message is challenged. The Bible is filled with people who, according to the Bible and Jesus, did not sin. Even one example of someone who did not sin is proof that the "everyone sins" message is false. There's the Titanic, sitting at the bottom of the ocean.
66. "Speaking in Tongues". For some reason there are a number of fundies that will lapse into complete gibberish when holding a conversation. Somehow gibberish seems more empowering to them, though I am not sure what they expect..
67. The "Kicking the shmoo" game. Fundies are usually under the impression that everyone but themselves are "shmoos". A "shmoo" was a mythical creature from the "Little Abner" cartoons. http://www.deniskitchen.com/docs/new_shmoofacts.html A shmoo always loves to be kicked around and just LOVES anyone who kicks them. Fundies have a hard time believing that anyone they assault isn't a shmoo who should be SO thankful for the abuse!
68. The "Cafeteria Christian" gambit, in which the fundie in question picks one piece from the Old Testament to apply to everyone else, but will nosh on rabbit fricassee, ham sandwiches, and shrimp cocktail with gleeful abandon on their way for a shave and a haircut in a poly-cotton blend shirt.
69. "Sin for Jesus", otherwise known as the "Jesus will dry up and blow away if we don't go around sinning, so sin for Jesus!" ploy. Why Jesus would suddenly disappear if someone wasn't sinning is never really explained but they really believe that if even one person did not sin, Christianity would dry up and blow away.
70. The "Free Speech Fallacy". "Anyone who does not agree with me is against free speech!" Somehow a fundie cannot get it through his head that free speech means OTHERS can have their say too.
71. The "Opinion Fallacy" holds that all opinions are the equal of all other opinions regardless of whether they're valid or not. If something is called 'opinion' it cannot be subject to criticism and/or ridicule.
72. The "God'll Get You Anyway" game. You may not be doing such and such, but because you won't agree with the fundie that it's a sin, the fundie points out that God will send you to hell anyway, mostly for disagreeing with the fundie.
73. BEGGING THE QUESTION, an argument in which the conclusion is implied or already assumed in the premise. Also said to be a circular argument. For example, a fundie will find a passage that condemns sin in general, claim that this covers his particular "sin of the day", and offer that as his PROOF that his "sin of the day" is actually a sin.
74. The RED HERRING, introduction of an irrelevant issue into a discussion as a smokescreen. It is a tactic designed to divert attention from the issue at hand. There are numerous variations on this tactic, but the underlying idea is that if they KNOW they have lost the debate and feel that the only hope is to distract people from noticing the obvious.
75. The FALSE ANALOGY, an unsound form of inductive argument in which an argument relies heavily on a weak or irrelevant analogy to prove its point. The fundie usually gets quite upset when his analogy is carried to its logical conclusion, or else is modified to make it a more accurate representation of the actual facts.
76. "I don't HAVE to know what the Bible says!" This is based on the idea that they are so spiritually evolved that they know more about the Bible and God than anyone else, so it doesn't matter if their opinions are directly contradicted by the Bible. This is certainly a prime example of the sin of Hubris.
77. "Pascal's Wager" tries to tie belief in the Christian God to self-interest rather than evidence. It is based on the premise that God will do horrible things to you if you don't believe in him without any evidence of his existence. Unfortunately, the Christian God can undoubtedly see through such a selfish attempt. He would probably condemn people to hell who went through the motions of belief just on the off chance God might torture them for eternity if they didn't. This is a variant of the "curse-you" game in which the fundie attempts to blame God for the misery you are allegedly sure to suffer in the afterlife based on their beliefs.
78. The "Fundie Circle Jerk". In this one, the fundie starts off claiming that some passage supports his opposition to his favorite "sin of the day" and starts bashing people with it. When it is proven that the passage does NOT support him, he starts whining that some OTHER passage "proves" that the original passage supports his opinion. When THAT one is proven wrong, he runs to another, and then another, and keeps going until he returns to the original, apparently completely unaware that he has failed in every instance to support his position. Then the fundie circle-jerk starts up again and keeps going.
79. "Agumentum ad furious assertion" involves the fundie asserting the same thing over and over again without any proof, acting indignant that anyone could POSSIBLY think they are wrong.
80. "Dognity" -- an attempt by a fundie to pretend that spouting bigoted dogma instantly infuses hate speech with dignity.
81. "Freedom of Speech Doublespeak" -- in this game, the fundie starts a mad tirade about how anyone who opposes his viewpoint is against "freedom of speech" and should be forced to shut up. This is normally because the opposing views are so compelling that he thinks silencing the opposition is the only option he has left.
82. "Moving the goal posts" -- in this interesting game the fundie makes some bald statement, like "Nothing has ever been left out of any Bible". After numerous counterexamples he keeps excluding things from what he originally said until the word "nothing" finally morphs into something like: "nothing that was needed for the purpose of many purpose which can be reasonably be construed as Christian was left out".
83. "Self defense is no defense" -- Apparently fundies get their talking points from some really sick source, and suddenly all of them are using it. This is their latest attempt to tie up the internet with specious garbage. Their victims are supposed to lie down on the ground and thank the fundies for beating them because anything less would be "intolerance", "opposing free speech", and "persecution" of the fundies.
84. "Semantic Deception" One of the many dishonest games Fundies play, this one is in reference to the habit of making the Bible say what they want it to say. When a Fundie is confronted with an obvious contradiction or biblical problem, he will often claim that the accuser is taking a verse out of context. Interestingly, Fundies are known for taking verses out of context, and are incapable of showing what context has been missed.
85. "You aren't worthy". In this fundie game, the fundie claims that a poster who clearly knows a LOT more about the subject than he does isn't "worthy" of a debate because the other person isn't a "real Christian" or "saved" or "born again" etc. This allows the fundie to play "holier than thou" while still running from the discussion.
86. The "neo-Pharisee" ploy involves inaccurately interpreting a Bible passage so narrowly that the fundie claims it doesn't apply to them. For example, many fundies will claim that the word "NOTHING" means "everything except food".
87. "Unikronicity": the act of declaring oneself "different from all those others" and then using the same tactics against a population they supposedly are sympathetic to. This usually starts out as: "I am not a homophobe, but..."
88. "I'll get back to you on that, but I have an answer...." The fundie never does, of course, because he does NOT have an answer. This is just one of many ways of avoiding admitting that he was wrong while pretending to be knowledgeable.
89. "Dead bigots must know what they are talking about". In this ploy, the fundie refers to the opinions of dead bigots to support his own bigotry. Naturally the dead bigots could not provide anything to back up their opinions either, but that does not seem to matter.
90. "Old News". also known as: "You aren't allowed to use my own words against me!" In this fundie ploy, the fundie will have made a number of statements which HE claims are absolutely true. When it is pointed out later that this completely contradicts what he is saying now, he will get very huffy about using something he himself said BEFORE to refute what he is saying NOW.
91. "Snapping". In this game, the fundie will send post after mindless post after post to someone who has blown him away in debate saying: "Why don't you respond?" What he hopes no one notices is that he has changed the recipient of the posts to be "all" or himself, so the original poster may never see what he says.
92. "The Armour of God". When a fundie is presented with irrefutable facts that prove that he is completely mistaken about one of his opinions, he would loudly proclaim that he is putting on his "armour of God". Apparently the "armour of God" is purposeful ignorance, and the fundie is incapable of showing any difference between the "armour of God" and purposeful ignorance.
93. "Perseveration" This is the fundie version of perseverance. It's when they keep doing the same thing, over and over, even if it's not working, and appears completely idiotic to everyone else.
94. "Projective Defensiveness". In this fundie game, the fundie engages in an unrelenting assault on another poster with a series of false and malicious accusations. When the person being assaulted counters the accusations with facts, the fundie crows: "You're becoming defensive now!"
95. "Christianity = ignorance, violence, hate and bigotry". Whenever anyone opposes the fundie's messages of violence, hatred and bigotry, they will claim that the person is "attacking Christians". Since this would only be true if ALL Christians promoted violence, hatred and bigotry, the fundie is in effect claiming that Christianity IS ignorance, violence, hatred and bigotry.
96. "Murder, rape, and stealing is fun!" Fundies will frequently try and claim that without their particular brand of religion everyone would murder, rape, steal etc. because it is so much FUN! The fact that these people think that violent crimes are fun tells a lot more about them than it does about anyone else.
97. "If we're going to try to mislead people for Christ, we need to get our stories straight." In this fundie game, one fundie will make an outrageous and false claim to try and "prove" himself right. As he gets blown away, other fundies will jump in claiming that the first fundie was absolutely right. Sometimes they get themselves confused and wind up proving the opposite instead.
98. "Fundamentalism = ignorance, violence, hate and bigotry". Whenever someone is successfully opposing the hate-filled messages of fundies, and they have failed in their attempts to pretend that opposing their bigotry is opposing all Christians, they then fall back on claiming that the person opposing their dishonest tactics are opposing all fundamentalists, even though fundies are no more fundamentalists than stick insects are sticks.
99. "Memory Loss". The fundie will be provided with absolute proof that he is mistaken about some fact, and moments later he will be once again making the same discredited claim as if he never heard the refutation before. He will also deny that the refutation has ever even been given.
100. "Dropping turds in the punchbowl". In this fundie game, the fundie will show up at a forum of "sinners", drop off some obnoxious sinscreaming posts, and then disappear, never responding to any answers. After all, HE would never drink from something he had befouled that way.
101. "Delusions of grandeur". This fundie game imvolves taking on a screen name the fundie hopes will impress the gullible while spewing some of the most vile and hate-filled messages imaginable either in forums or chat rooms. The screen name could be anything from a favorite verse used to abuse others, a description of a truly religious person or, in an act of ultimate hubris, "God".
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
But murder and theft *are* fun...
Date: 2005-08-09 10:25 pm (UTC)Christian
I dreamed I stood upon a hill, and, lo!
The godly multitudes walked to and fro
Beneath, in Sabbath garments fitly clad,
With pious mien, appropriately sad,
While all the church bells made a solemn din --
A fire-alarm to those who lived in sin.
Then saw I gazing thoughtfully below,
With tranquil face, upon that holy show
A tall, spare figure in a robe of white,
Whose eyes diffused a melancholy light.
"God keep you, stranger," I exclaimed. "You are
No doubt (your habit shows it) from afar;
And yet I entertain the hope that you,
Like these good people, are a Christian too."
He raised his eyes and with a look so stern
It made me with a thousand blushes burn
Replied -- his manner with disdain was spiced:
"What! I a Christian? No, indeed! I'm Christ."
-- Ambrose Bierce
no subject
Date: 2005-08-09 10:39 pm (UTC)Re: But murder and theft *are* fun...
Date: 2005-08-09 11:14 pm (UTC)He's *Jewish*.
:)
Re: But murder and theft *are* fun...
Date: 2005-08-09 11:22 pm (UTC)Re: But murder and theft *are* fun...
Date: 2005-08-10 12:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-10 12:10 am (UTC)